Yamaha DTXtreme IIs Kit to set up. Help !!!

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Re: Yamaha DTXtreme IIs Kit to set up. Help !!!

Postby dmitri » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:51 pm

CharlySombreCoeur wrote:Hi dmitri.

I tried again with my PCY 150s. Only the ride jack plugged, and only driven by the module.

Ride Bow threshold : 14
Ride Edge Threshold : 37
Ride B Threshold : 12

After the "set all Bow/Edge" Procedure, I get this :

Ride edge thresh : 24
Ride B Thresh : 5

But in the same time, I only get the bow to send a note, or actually, superior drummer gives only the Bow Sound.

So, here I open MDM to get midi activity.

And so I can see unknow hit (yellow) on all zones, and Choke on X2 Choke off X2 message.
When I lower Edge threshold to 0, I dont get choke message anymore.

So you have on the Edge input: Threshold 24 and BThreshold 5.
The the note number of the unknown hit is the note number of the Bow input, right? (Note number is displayed in the MIDI Log at the bottom of each hit bar)
When you hit the bow you get the bow note followed with two Choke On and two Choke Off message, right?
When you hit the edge you get the bow note followed with two Choke On and two Choke Off message, right?
When you press the the edge switch you get two Choke On messages, right?
When you release the the edge switch you get two Choke Off messages, right?
MinScan on the Bow input is 20, right?
MinScan on the Edge input is 20, right?

If all of the above I guessed correctly, then on the Bow input set MinScan to 50. What notes do you get now when hitting the bow and the edge?
dmitri
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Re: Yamaha DTXtreme IIs Kit to set up. Help !!!

Postby CharlySombreCoeur » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:47 am

I get your last message too late.

I actually succeded to set the 3 zones on the Ride and the Snare, after 3 hours of hard labour.
I still don't understand exactly how ...

Why I have to set the Edge input threshold between 14 to 18 to get separate Bow/Edge signals ?

-----

About Minscan, I did try to raise it, but to get a more consistant velocity detection. It didn't work.

But I was reading again what you said and I dont understand what will happend technically with minscan set to 50 for bow input. Can you explain me ?
-----

So, the news questions :

- Before velocity curves, how can I get more dynamic range and better velocity detection ?
I did raise "high level", but in a point, I just cant get v127 Hit. And so there is not enough difference between soft and hard hit. By consequence, when I do rolls, I have false strong hits mixed with softs.

- I have "volume" knobs on the pads. What is the best for Megadrum ? Set it High or Low ?

- Sometimes, in a rim hit, I have an head hit as well. What is the parameter to manage with this ?

-------

As well, I have to say that finally, the Megadrum Module has no problem at all. But it is a very difficult mission to set it !

Thank you for your help

Charly
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Re: Yamaha DTXtreme IIs Kit to set up. Help !!!

Postby dmitri » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:20 am

CharlySombreCoeur wrote:I get your last message too late.

I actually succeded to set the 3 zones on the Ride and the Snare, after 3 hours of hard labour.
I still don't understand exactly how ...

Why I have to set the Edge input threshold between 14 to 18 to get separate Bow/Edge signals ?

Because if you set it too high MegaDrum will see the edge switch as always pressed, and if you set it too low MegaDrum will never see the edge switch as pressed or hit.

-----

About Minscan, I did try to raise it, but to get a more consistant velocity detection. It didn't work.

But I was reading again what you said and I dont understand what will happend technically with minscan set to 50 for bow input. Can you explain me ?
-----

The suggestion about the MinScan was my guess that MegaDrum detected/scaned a signal on the bow too quickly and before fully recognizing a switch on the edge been pressed. Again, it was suggestion based on a number of guesses in my previous post.


So, the news questions :

- Before velocity curves, how can I get more dynamic range and better velocity detection ?
I did raise "high level", but in a point, I just cant get v127 Hit. And so there is not enough difference between soft and hard hit. By consequence, when I do rolls, I have false strong hits mixed with softs.
What is your current HighLevel?
With this HighLevel, do strong hits produce velocities 127?

- I have "volume" knobs on the pads. What is the best for Megadrum ? Set it High or Low ?

I know Yamaha cymbals are quite "cool" so you should set it to High. I don't know about Yamaha pads.


- Sometimes, in a rim hit, I have an head hit as well. What is the parameter to manage with this ?

Is this like double triggering where rim note has high velocity followed by a head note with low velocity?
dmitri
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Re: Yamaha DTXtreme IIs Kit to set up. Help !!!

Postby CharlySombreCoeur » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:17 am

Hi today, Dmitri

What is your current HighLevel?
With this HighLevel, do strong hits produce velocities 127?


It is set to 550 for the snare, and yes Ï get 127v on strong hits.
As well, I did try "Auto high level", and it set 470.

If I understand how works the pads : The vibrating piezo give electric signal, the strong hit, the stronger electric signal. And so, Megadrum convert it onto midi note and velocity. Right ?
The problem now is that : for a "very relative" identical electric signal, I can get v80 and v110. And with a little stronger, I get v127, where I would expect v110.

On the other hand, I noticed another problem that could be the reason for the last one. The false triggering :
On the head snare, I got 3 hits with almost same velocity, for one hit. So, I raised Re-Trigger (to 50 ?), and so I get one hit, or sometime still two.

Is this like double triggering where rim note has high velocity followed by a head note with low velocity?


No. It is when I it the Snare rim, I get snare head with almost same velocity. Should I manage it with Minscan ?

-------------

But it has very improved anyway.
Now I have to set toms and crashes, and I will play with parameters.

And after, the hat pedal ...

thanks !
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Re: Yamaha DTXtreme IIs Kit to set up. Help !!!

Postby dmitri » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:37 pm

CharlySombreCoeur wrote:Hi today, Dmitri

What is your current HighLevel?
With this HighLevel, do strong hits produce velocities 127?


It is set to 550 for the snare, and yes Ï get 127v on strong hits.
As well, I did try "Auto high level", and it set 470.

If I understand how works the pads : The vibrating piezo give electric signal, the strong hit, the stronger electric signal. And so, Megadrum convert it onto midi note and velocity. Right ?
The problem now is that : for a "very relative" identical electric signal, I can get v80 and v110. And with a little stronger, I get v127, where I would expect v110.

Let us address one issue at a time, shall we?
The relation between a hit strength and electrical signal level from a piezo is not linear. And this is one of the main reasons to use velocity curves.
1. Set the volume knob on the pad to High.
2. On the Head input set HiLvlAuto to Yes and HighLevel to 64.
3. Hit the head around 15-20 times with a strength which you expect to produce velocity 127.

What value did you get in HighLevel?
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Re: Yamaha DTXtreme IIs Kit to set up. Help !!!

Postby CharlySombreCoeur » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:52 pm

With knob in top high, I get 680.
And the gain is 3. Does it raise the high level number ?
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Re: Yamaha DTXtreme IIs Kit to set up. Help !!!

Postby dmitri » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:52 pm

CharlySombreCoeur wrote:With knob in top high, I get 680.
And the gain is 3. Does it raise the high level number ?

Gain has direct influence on signal levels, and in this case on the HighLevel you got. Read about Gain in http://www.megadrum.info/content/pads-settings

Now:
1. Set HiLvlAuto to No.
2. Set MinScan to 30.
3. Set Retrigger to 10.
4 Set DynLevel to 15.
5. Set DynTime to 20.
6. Set HighLevel to 650. Hit the pad hard several times. What velocities do you get? Is there any double triggering?
7. Set Curve to Log2.

Now hit the pad with a strength to produce velocity around 80. Now hit the pad just a little bit harder. What velocity do you get?
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Re: Yamaha DTXtreme IIs Kit to set up. Help !!!

Postby dmitri » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:39 pm

I borrowed an XP120SD pad to come up with definitive settings.
A few notes:
1. XP120SD is a pretty "cool" pad so it should NOT be used on a input with a Positional Sensing addon. If you have a Positional Sensing addon, don't use it on inputs 4, 6, 8, 10 and 12.
2. I tested it on an ARM based MegaDrum. On an Atmega based MegaDrum settings might differ slightly.
3. XP120SD's level knob was turned all the way counter clock wise (it shows "-" in this direction but the borrowed pad had actually stronger signal in this position).

This is is the screenshot of the settings:
Snap 2013-08-19 at 19.46.12.png

Note a few important things:
1. I had to raise MinScan to around 50 to prevent false head triggering when hitting either of the rims.
2. XP120SD is a fairly "cool" pad so I used highest Gain level on the Head.
3. Because of high Gain level, I also set Threshold on the Head quite high.

Below is the MIDI log showing:
1. Output from free a falling stick on the head.
2. Output from two very strong hits on the head.
3. Output from two strong hits on the head.
4. Output from a few medium strength hits on the rim1.
5. Output from a few medium strength hits on the rim2.
Snap 2013-08-19 at 19.46.51.png

Note in the log:
1. Gradually subsiding velocity for the free falling stick test.
2. No false or double triggering.

This is and .mds file with above shown settings. Note that the settings are for the SnareH and SnareR inputs.
XP120SD_alone.zip
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: Yamaha DTXtreme IIs Kit to set up. Help !!!

Postby CharlySombreCoeur » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:36 pm

I've just seen your post, and it is very cool.

I will check the effects of those parameters on my own TP120SD tonight and I tell you about.
I didn't expect those kind of settings, and so I have to learn more about how the Megadrum electric translation works. As well for Piezo mechanic.

If you have some reference to learn this, and some more explanation about the Megadrum parameters, I take it !
For exemple, what exactly do DynLevel and DynTime on the translation between electric impulsion and Megadrum sent Message ?

And thank you to have done that.

Charly
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Re: Yamaha DTXtreme IIs Kit to set up. Help !!!

Postby dmitri » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:12 pm

All the settings for pads/cymbals are actually described in http://www.megadrum.info/content/pads-settings , including DynLevel and DynTime.
The rest of the settings are in http://www.megadrum.info/content/megadrum-configuration
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