I'm trying to make dual zone metal cymbals with touch choke

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I'm trying to make dual zone metal cymbals with touch choke

Postby 22878 » Thu May 28, 2020 4:56 am

I've spent a lot of time researching how to make metal e-cymbals, but I'm still not quite sure how to make a dual zone metal e-cymbal with a touch choke like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Apv0N1Ypfk. The first problem is trying to add an edge trigger. Normally a switch is used, but I read that those have to be used on top of the cymbal, and I don't want to put it on top. If you look at the Smartrigger design, they use a switch on the bottom of their metal e-cymbals. I have attached a picture showing this. I contacted Smartrigger and they confirmed that the switch works perfectly fine as an edge trigger and choke. Has anyone ever tried to use one of these switches on the bottom of a metal cymbal before? And does anyone have any suggestions for making a dual zone metal cymbal with touch choke? I have seen the designs where they use a piece of a second cymbal to make the edge trigger and choke, like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npnuaguzq6Y&t=773s but the choke isn't a touch choke. Currently, this is the closest thing I can find to what I want. Does anyone have any ideas on how to make a 2 zone (bow / edge) metal e-cymbal with touch choke?
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22878
 
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Re: I'm trying to make dual zone metal cymbals with touch ch

Postby ignotus » Thu May 28, 2020 6:42 am

You can either have a dual zone with a regular choke (by squeezing), or a single zone with touch choke, but not both. If you configure the edge zone as a switch and look for the right threshold setting, it can be activated just by touching metal connected to ring (the cymbal itself or a strip of metal under it). But that threshold setting will be different to what is needed to trigger a switch when struck.

My guess is that those Smartrigger cymbals will not trigger the edge with light hits. Of course they'd say it works perfectly, but that's a subjective term.
If it ain't broken... fix it until it is.
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Re: I'm trying to make dual zone metal cymbals with touch ch

Postby 22878 » Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:13 am

ignotus wrote:You can either have a dual zone with a regular choke (by squeezing), or a single zone with touch choke, but not both. If you configure the edge zone as a switch and look for the right threshold setting, it can be activated just by touching metal connected to ring (the cymbal itself or a strip of metal under it). But that threshold setting will be different to what is needed to trigger a switch when struck.

My guess is that those Smartrigger cymbals will not trigger the edge with light hits. Of course they'd say it works perfectly, but that's a subjective term.


Is this touch choke different than the one you had on your cymbals? You said you only connected the metal strip to the ring. But in this video, they say they also connect a wire to the cymbal itself. Is this unnecessary? Also, why couldn't you use piezos for edge and bow sounds? I have seen designs like that. Such as this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYJn4SSG6CA

"It's wired so: Piezo Ceramic > Tip / Piezo Disc > Sleeve / Cymbal > Sleeve / Aluminum Strip > Ring. It has no other electronics (no transistors or resistors) whatsoever and is plugged straight to a standard input on the MD. The head part of the input is set to Dual Head: Yes and the rim part is set to Type: Switch and Threshold: 30. The switch works flawlessly even with my very dry hands."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u24R07uJoo
22878
 
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Re: I'm trying to make dual zone metal cymbals with touch ch

Postby ignotus » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:38 am

22878 wrote:Is this touch choke different than the one you had on your cymbals? You said you only connected the metal strip to the ring. But in this video, they say they also connect a wire to the cymbal itself. Is this unnecessary? Also, why couldn't you use piezos for edge and bow sounds? I have seen designs like that. Such as this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYJn4SSG6CA


The way I made the touch choke the metal strip was connected to ring and was grounded by you touching it - your body acts as the ground plane so to speak. Other designs use a strip connected to ring and the metal cymbal connected to ground. You effectively short ring to ground through the cymbal by bridging the gap with your hand, closing the switch. It's just different ways of doing the same thing. I found my method simpler because it involves less wiring - you could even just connect the metal cymbal to ring and choke by touching it, no strips needed.

On the other hand, piezo/piezo/switch pads are not supported by MD. Getting separation between a bow and edge piezo will be very hard anyway. You can get away with piezos for bell/bow or edge though, but then you can't have choke. It boils down to compromises, especially with metal cymbals since triggering multiple zones is more complicated.
If it ain't broken... fix it until it is.
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