Proper Kit Toys Aftertouch Configuration

Discussions of any related software

Moderator: Related software moderators

Proper Kit Toys Aftertouch Configuration

Postby ibanman555 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:24 am

*Update* - I forgot that the threshold setting for aftertouch on the edge/rim was very specific.... So I increased one at a time and it showed up on the log. Disregard below but hopefully a reminder for someone in the future. My kit is playing better than ever!

I am currently rebuilding my MD files and I can't seem to get aftertouch to register at all, wondering if the setup has changed from a few years ago.

I have kit toys cymbals, a piezo and a switch, but no matter what I try, I'm not getting any aftertouch signal from the rim/edge, at least how I'm familiar with setting it up. What should I try, or do differently from this configuration?
Last edited by ibanman555 on Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ibanman555
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:44 pm
Location: Upstate New York (Adirondacks)

Re: Proper Aftertouch Configuration 2020

Postby ibanman555 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:49 am

I have a new question regarding aftertouch. I have managed to get my cymbals registering aftertouch successfully, albeit in a very fine window of threshold on the rim/edge channel. There is a .5-1 second delay when a choke is applied. I notice when I increase the threshold, aftertouch begins to self-trigger more and more as the threshold increases, but the sensitivity to touch is improved and response at a higher threshold are shorter and are ideal for choking the cymbal, but obviously not usable because of auto triggering.

Are there any options for eliminating the auto triggering of aftertouch on rim/edge at a higher threshold, so the sensitivity remains but auto-triggering eliminated more or less? Just to note, the choke on these Kit Toys cymbals not an actual switch, but more like a capacitance touch (two trace strips on a PCB type board affixed beneath the cymbal). Thanks in advance for any insightful discussion.
Last edited by ibanman555 on Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ibanman555
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:44 pm
Location: Upstate New York (Adirondacks)

Re: Proper Aftertouch Configuration 2020

Postby dmitri » Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:53 pm

To widen the ranger for Aftertouch threshold, increase Gain. You will need to raise and adjust the Threshold after increasing Gain.
dmitri
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8537
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:05 pm

Re: Proper Aftertouch Configuration 2020

Postby ibanman555 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:37 pm

I have gain on Rim/Edge set to the maximum of 8 already. For example I begin to trigger aftertouch at threshold 78. At 79, it auto triggers every second or so. 80, every half a second.... Maybe I'm stuck with what I've got.
ibanman555
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:44 pm
Location: Upstate New York (Adirondacks)

Re: Proper Kit Toys Aftertouch Configuration

Postby dmitri » Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:33 am

In the screenshot for cymbal settings:
1. The Threshold on the Edge is set to 1, not 78-79.
2. The Threshold on the Bow must always be lower then on the Edge.
3. Pressroll Note must be equal to Main Note if you don't use it, not 0.
4. Notes for Bow, Edge and Ball are all the same. No mater which zone you hit, it will trigger the same note.

What type of a cymbal is it? DIY or branded? Dual/3way? piezo/switch or piezo/switch/switch?
dmitri
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8537
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:05 pm

Re: Proper Kit Toys Aftertouch Configuration

Postby ibanman555 » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:59 pm

Right sorry, I need to replace that screenshot as it is a poor representation of where my settings are now... I will change Pressroll note, I wasn't aware that should also be the same as note if not used, and that makes sense now that I think about it.

The cymbal is branded Kit Toys (now Drone Triggers?), and was made by a fellow named Mike in UK, but I don't believe he makes them anymore. They are single Piezo/touch switch.

Image
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by ibanman555 on Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ibanman555
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:44 pm
Location: Upstate New York (Adirondacks)

Re: Proper Kit Toys Aftertouch Configuration

Postby dmitri » Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:20 pm

You still have Pressroll set to 0.
You still have bow and edge with the same Note.
Settings labels in in RED o BLUE means that MDMFX and MegaDrum settings are not in sync. BLACK labels mean settings are in sync.
Such a high Threshold on a the edge switch for a simple dual zone pizeo/switch cymbal is very strange. Can you measure ring<->sleeve resistance when the switch is pressed and when it is released?

Start with Threshold 90 on the Edge. Watch for raw MIDI in the MIDI Log.
1. Press/release the edge switch.
2. Did you see Aftertouch On/Off messages in the MIDI Log? If NO, reduce the Threshold on the Edge by one and repeat from step 1.
3. Remember Threshold (say it is 80) as T1.
4. Press/release the edge switch.
5. Did you see Aftertouch On/Off messages in the MIDI Log? If YES, reduce the Threshold on the Edge by one and repeat from step 4.
6. Remember Threshold (say it is 70) as T2.

Now set Threshold on the Edge to the middle between T1 and T2, in the example values above it would be 75.
dmitri
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8537
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:05 pm

Re: Proper Kit Toys Aftertouch Configuration

Postby ibanman555 » Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:40 am

I was away from the kit and wanted to provide my most recent cymbal settings for you, so I loaded it up on another computer. That would explain the sync issue, sorry. So, I will measure as soon as possible, per your request, and report back asap. I would just like to clarify the settings beforehand and elaborate on how I have this set up.

Since I have a single piezo cymbal, I will want to assign Note, Altnote, and PressNote to the same number, correct? I assigned the same note number to the edge because I would like the aftertouch message to send the same note, as it provides the choke sound in the drum software. Should edge be assigned a different note than the bow? Zone 3 is disabled and should remain as such?

The cable from the cymbal is routed to my voltage divider, because it is hot, which has 2 10k pots in series for independent adjustment for ring and tip, and another cable out from there into my Megadrum. I will reset my cymbal tip to get proper signal on the head/bow channel and reset the ring pot for zero resistance before measuring.
Last edited by ibanman555 on Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ibanman555
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:44 pm
Location: Upstate New York (Adirondacks)

Re: Proper Kit Toys Aftertouch Configuration

Postby ibanman555 » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:29 am

Ooooooo kay... So I backtracked my work over the years and here is where I'm at. I directly measured one of the touch chokes and I'm getting around 6m Ohm on the meter when the switch is pressed, and OL when released. I am still around 80s-90s on threshold for the Edge for all the cymbals with choke.

I realized that by placing the cymbals through my voltage divider, which actually have individual 100k pots in series for tip and ring, it was screwing up the choke adjustment, as you can imagine. I pulled them and directly connected them to MD again and I am getting better response.

So, I guess I'm going to leave this here for now, I will probably rewire the pots (in hindsight great for drum pads, poor for cymbals) and bypass the ring to get my pads sensitivity down again, or throw a resistor in the TRS cable. And for the heck of it, I attempted to draw a schematic of what's inside this cymbal when I was repairing one many, many years ago...
Last edited by ibanman555 on Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ibanman555
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:44 pm
Location: Upstate New York (Adirondacks)

Re: Proper Kit Toys Aftertouch Configuration

Postby dmitri » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:01 pm

I don't see the need for a transistor on the edge switch - neither Yamaha nor Roland do this. Can you bypass the transistor and wire the edge switch directly to ring so that there is only the switch between sleeve and ring?
dmitri
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8537
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:05 pm

Next

Return to Related Software

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests

cron