Megadrum chick and splash problem with delay

Discussions related to MegaDrum Hardware

Megadrum chick and splash problem with delay

Postby rockdude » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:03 pm

I'm fiddling with Megadrums own way of handling chick and foot splash with Native Instruments Studio Drummer.
I've used Superior Drummers own way of handling it with success, but since Studio Drummer doesn't have that option I have to rely on Megadrums handling. Chicks works fine and happen at the exact right moment, but when I let Megadrum handle foot splashes as well by enabling ”New Algrthm” and "Chick Delay" the chicks come out with a noticeable delay even when ChckDelay is at "1" and I can't keep time when playing since the chick notes come out slightly delayed. Are there any way of decreasing the delay?

I should add that I've tried tweaking the MinVlcty, MaxVlcty, ChckDead, ChkCrv in New Algrthm-mode and that let's me generate the splash sound pretty consistently, but it's all ruined by the slightly delayed chick sound at ChckDelay=1.

When not using New Algrthm the chicks come out without any noticeable delay at ChckDelay=1~20 but I have to set it to around 40 in that mode to produce splashes and then the chicks has the same delay as in New Algrthm.
Catch-22 kind of :?
rockdude
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:18 am

Re: Megadrum chick and splash problem with delay

Postby dmitri » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:07 pm

I explained the reason several times. To be able to generate splashes I have to delay sending chicks to see if a splash will follow - if it doesn't follow after a configured delay, it will send chick, otherwise it will send a splash.
And again, everybody is welcome to suggest a better way of separating chicks and splashes.
dmitri
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8213
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:05 pm

Re: Megadrum chick and splash problem with delay

Postby airflamesred » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:43 pm

It seems to me that the only answer to this is something physical being added to the pedal.

koby drums - Triggera krigg/Bix - megadrum - Kontakt........... Samples from all and sundry.
airflamesred
 
Posts: 1111
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:58 pm
Location: Hammersmith

Re: Megadrum chick and splash problem with delay

Postby rockdude » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:41 pm

dmitri wrote:I explained the reason several times. To be able to generate splashes I have to delay sending chicks to see if a splash will follow - if it doesn't follow after a configured delay, it will send chick, otherwise it will send a splash.
And again, everybody is welcome to suggest a better way of separating chicks and splashes.


I'm aware that you have explained this several times. I've read the manual and many threads about it. Maybe I didn't understand all the aspects anyway.
I wonder why I could get splashes easily with chick delay=1 with New Algrthm activated, but would have to set chick delay at about 20+ using the old "hard coded" algorithm to get splashes quite comfortable? And chick delay=1 in New Algrthm causes a higher delay for the chick than chick delay=20 in the old algorithm. Why is that?

I would guess that the old algorithm has static values for MinVlcty, MaxVlcty, ChckDead?

I should add that I can play chicks decently with the old algorithm at chick delay=20 now and generate splashes at will consistently, but since the left foot is such an important time keeper when playing drums I would love to see a way to lower the delay for chicks somehow without affecting the splashes. I don't have a better solution than yours right now, but maybe there's more variables or tweaking that can be done to improve it further.
rockdude
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:18 am

Re: Megadrum chick and splash problem with delay

Postby dmitri » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:00 pm

New and old chick/splash algorithms are completely different and the old algorithm has never had MinVlcty, MaxVlcty, ChckDead. I cannot tell of top of my head why there is a difference in chick delay between old and new algorithms as I made changes to them quite long time ago - mostly because almost everybody used soft synth generated chick/splashes using MIDI CC and nobody really cared about them.
dmitri
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8213
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:05 pm

Re: Megadrum chick and splash problem with delay

Postby rockdude » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:27 pm

dmitri wrote:New and old chick/splash algorithms are completely different and the old algorithm has never had MinVlcty, MaxVlcty, ChckDead. I cannot tell of top of my head why there is a difference in chick delay between old and new algorithms as I made changes to them quite long time ago - mostly because almost everybody used soft synth generated chick/splashes using MIDI CC and nobody really cared about them.


I prefer the old algorithm just based on that I can get lower delay for the chicks. I would love to be able to tweak the stuff in the new algorithm, but with lower delay for the chicks (at least as low as in the old algorithm). 8-)

I use Addictive Drums 2's and Superior Drummers 3's own internal handling of chicks and splashes when using them, but Native Instruments Studio Drummer (and other libraries in that series) doesn't offer that and the sound of those drums are amazing. I love being able to tweak things manually in MegaDrum. For example, sometimes I can get an even better end result for the hihat's different levels of openess when tweaking everything by cc and note assignment in MegaDrum than letting the soft synth handle it alone. The level of control and tweakability in MegaDrum is top notch. :ugeek:
rockdude
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:18 am

Re: Megadrum chick and splash problem with delay

Postby dmitri » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:46 pm

As you can see, chick and spalsh detection is not an easy task. I would spend more time on it if there were more demand for it. But I only envision less and less demand for it as newer soft synths can generate them using MIDI CC.
dmitri
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8213
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:05 pm

Re: Megadrum chick and splash problem with delay

Postby Kabonfaiba » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:27 pm

dmitri wrote:...mostly because almost everybody used soft synth generated chick/splashes using MIDI CC and nobody really cared about them.


Damn, I've been using Megadrum's chick note generation since day 1 with all VSTs, I've never used soft synth chicks. Any magic setting to get them to work and not just trigger bow events as a VH-11 user?

I'm aware of what the delay does. Splashes using MD do work, but as you rightly say - not a worthwhile experience using the delay function.

SD3 already does an okay job approximating a splashes with transmuting, but I've never heard chicks without MD sending note 21.
Kabonfaiba
 
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:13 pm
Location: Portsmouth, UK

Re: Megadrum chick and splash problem with delay

Postby dmitri » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:03 pm

Kabonfaiba, I'm not sure I understand what the problem is. Can you please describe it in more detail?
dmitri
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8213
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:05 pm

Re: Megadrum chick and splash problem with delay

Postby Kabonfaiba » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:24 pm

No problem Dmitri, maybe a screenshot of my current settings would help.

vh11settings.png


At the moment, I'm using Megadrum to send note 21 for chicks. If disable this, surely there is no other way for a VST (SD3 for example) to trigger the closed pedal articulation?

If I disable chick note in MDMFX - all I send is note 19, which is cross talk from the bow piezo hitting the sensor as I close the pedal.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Kabonfaiba
 
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:13 pm
Location: Portsmouth, UK

Next

Return to MegaDrum Hardware

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Drummerdane and 8 guests